[X] My Assistant

Before I start, I guess I should say that I'm still relatively new in this whole translation scene so I'm just wondering what the people that have done these things for a while think about the following points that I'm going to address.

1) Ninjas
2) Speed vs. quality
3) Cock-blockers


Ninjas
The people that fall under this category are pretty much snipers. They don't accept bounties nor show their progress and only claim the bounties when they are finished. The people that did accept it before claiming will have no idea who they are competing with nor will they know if other people are interested in doing the bounty besides themselves.

Speed vs. Quality
Say we have a popular doujin that someone is commissioning. It has a high yield requiring a relatively low amount of work. Some translators become interested and they start working on it. They all accepted the bounty beforehand so everyone knows who they are competing against. If you're a translator, would you go for speed or quality? If you go for speed, you can potentially get the bounty for being the first one to dish it out. On the flip side, your translation could end up being a burning pile of shit. If you go for quality, the upside is obvious. Your end product is better but you risk the possibility that someone might claim it before you do. What should a translator do in this case? I guess what I'm asking is what's the proper way to handle a situation like this.

Cock-blockers
Pretty self-explanatory. This group of people are pretty different from the ninjas. Unlike ninjas that claim the bounty only when they are finished, cock-blockers claim the bounty even before they start as a means to prevent anyone else from accepting or claiming the bounty. Usually they will have an accompanying message or PM to the bounty poster saying that they will have it done by X amount of time to prevent the bounty poster from outright disputing the claim. Personally, I'm not too fond of this particular group but I would also like to hear your thoughts on it.

Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

So, what's the proper bounty etiquette that translators and editors should follow when dealing with these types of situations? I haven't found any discussions regarding this so I'm assuming that there is none in place, which means that people are free to do as they please. And the only thing preventing them from doing so is the discretion of the bounty poster. Some feedback on these three points would be much appreciated. If enough discussion can be generated from this, maybe a system can be set up that translators and editors can follow for properly dealing with bounties. A list of commandments if you will, or something of this sort.

=============================================================================

Guidelines: These are some preliminary guidelines for prospective translators/editors/bounty posters.

For bounty hunters:

1. Don't claim a bounty that someone else has already accepted without prior notice. Place an "accept" so that the bounty poster and other translator know that there is a competitor.
2. Don't accept a bounty if you can't finish it in a reasonable amount of time. I would suggest 1 week for <40 pg (most doujinshi), 2 weeks for <100 pg (long works like the Silent Saturn series or text-heavy stuff like Black Dog), and 1 month for full tanks (most mangas).
3. Give the bounty poster an estimate of how long you will take. If there are extenuating circumstances that will cause you to go over the estimate, PM the poster so he knows what's going on.

For bounty posters, here are some ways to ensure a reasonable level of quality:

1. Be specific in the bounty description (e.g., they must give a time estimate, etc.).
2. Raise the required hunter rank to get rid of trolls (most translators are rank C or higher).
3. Approach specific translators.
4. Split translating and editing duties, as that opens up the bounty to a wider pool of translators who don't edit and lets you place a quality control step before the gallery is uploaded.
5. Don't be lazy. Put a little bit of effort to show that you actually care about the bounty. Writing a simple comment or even a smiley would suffice when accepting claims.

This post has been edited by Sushilicious: Jan 5 2012, 12:05

Actually, I have t admit, putting a time limit on it was pretty slick, as far as avoiding that month(+) long wait for a response from anyone.

What time limit? Link or quote, anyone?

What time limit? Link or quote, anyone?

Sekirei07 had put a time limit requirement when he requested his bounty. That's all.

There have been many great points made all around and I have to thank everyone for providing their input. I think I should also clear some things up though. The terminology I used are not official bounty lingo, it's just terms that I came up with while trying to find a word that describes the different categories best. Regarding the speed vs. quality issue and that particular bounty that everyone was talking about, I didn't really start this thread solely based on that but it was a deciding factor for me to add that category in. It was meant as a discussion for bounties in general, not that particular one.

I always tend to first send a PM or email to a person of interest, saying that I am interested in working on their request.

PM's are always helpful. Making a simple comment in the accept box instead of leaving it blank would do the job as well.

This isn't to say that if someone decides to ninja a bounty and their translation is exquisite, that's not a bad thing at all.

True. If someone does it faster and better than you, then you got no one to blame but yourself. You simply got your ass handed to you.

What I really hate are those people who accept your bounty just because and make that any potential translator lose the interest in the job. Why they do that? I don't know.

Those are usually easy to pick out. As others have said before, not even bothering to leave a simple comment really says a lot about your interest in that bounty.

I dunno, do you define a ninja as someone who claims a bounty with no warning? Or as someone who claims a bounty that someone else has already accepted with no warning?

The latter. I really don't consider the former to be a ninja simply because there's nobody to ninja from, strictly speaking.

I don't think there's anything wrong with cock-blockers as long as they keep their word. If you accept a bounty saying you'll be done in a week and then nothing happens for a month, you're being an asshole. But if you say you'll be done in a week and give the translation in that time, I don't see how that's being wrong. Of course, the deadline should be reasonable: if you say you need two weeks for a 20-page doujinshi and someone else finishes it in a day, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

That's a good point. I have to agree with you that a week is a reasonable amount of time to claim a bounty, not too short and not too long. The only downside to this is that during that one week of cock-blocking, potential bounty hunters are being denied the opportunity to legitimately compete for that bounty. However, one can also argue that it's their fault for not noticing the bounty sooner in the first place.

Can we also include the actual bounty posters? Like the ones that back out of a claim AFTER it was negotiated by the poster and t/e?

Ah, yes. I was only thinking about the translators/editors that I forgot about the bounty posters.

As far as I see it, there is no bounty etiquette.

Indeed. There currently is no bounty etiquette, hence I started this topic to get some ideas from the bounty community. I'm not sure if such a system can even be implemented or if people would follow it if it is, but it would certainly help preventing scenarios such as the one that everyone's talking about.

Well, for one you should start putting quality requirements in the bounty. If you specify that the translation shouldn't be a steaming pile of shit, it's easier to reject in case of obvious shittitude.

That's a good idea. Unfortunately not all bounty posters do this. The only thing I see in most bounty descriptions is that the translation should not be a re-write. But that doesn't really say much regarding the quality of the translation itself.

Well I guess I should make a comment as I might have been a key trigger in this debate.

Don't worry, I didn't start this thread because of that particular bounty. I'm hoping that the discussion can generate guidelines that people can follow to complete bounties efficiently, some sort of resource if you will. In the end nobody likes seeing their work get wasted. Even in the case of the hypothetical shitty translator, no matter how bad their work is, it doesn't change the fact that time and effort have been put into it. This is to help prevent or reduce the frequency of such events from happening.



There have been lots of great comments so far. To be honest, I didn't expect to see this much feedback. If there's something that no one has mentioned yet then feel free to chime in.

Indeed. There currently is no bounty etiquette, hence I started this topic to get some ideas from the bounty community. I'm not sure if such a system can even be implemented or if people would follow it if it is, but it would certainly help preventing scenarios such as the one that everyone's talking about.

I would suggest the following guidelines. These aren't hard and fast rules (i.e., no one's going to get punished for not following them), but I think they would minimize future trouble.
For bounty hunters:

1. Don't claim a bounty that someone else has already accepted without prior notice. Place an "accept" so that the bounty poster and other translator know that there is a competitor.
2. Don't accept a bounty if you can't finish it in a reasonable amount of time. I would suggest 1 week for <40 pg (most doujinshi), 2 weeks for <100 pg (long works like the Silent Saturn series or text-heavy stuff like Black Dog), and 1 month for full tanks (most mangas).
3. Give the bounty poster an estimate of how long you will take. If there are extenuating circumstances that will cause you to go over the estimate, PM the poster so he knows what's going on.

For bounty posters, here are some ways to ensure a reasonable level of quality:

1. Be specific in the bounty description (e.g., they must give a time estimate, etc.).
2. Raise the required hunter rank to get rid of trolls (most translators are rank C or higher).
3. Approach specific translators.
4. Split translating and editing duties, as that opens up the bounty to a wider pool of translators who don't edit and lets you place a quality control step before the gallery is uploaded.

little off topic maybe how many translator on this site accept HV currency for translation.

little off topic maybe how many translator on this site accept HV currency for translation.

All? In addition to other means for some, presumably, but I've yet to see a bounty here that is not done for some form of hverse currency.

Anyway, here's my newest bounty template text:

CODE

Translate the linked gallery into English. This is a translation-only bounty, a separate bounty will be posted for editing job after the translation bounty is completed.

This translation includes credit pages. Broken Engrish craplation will not be accepted.

This is my 50+ translation bounty.

Gallery link: LINK

If you accept the bounty, accept it here, PM me and post in the relevant forum thread (which has more details on the bounty): LINK Once you've done so, the bounty will be reserved for you, however, if the translation is not completed within 2 weeks, it will be considered stalled/dropped and other translators will be allowed to work on it.

In addition to the carriers listed, you can also just post the translation in the forums.

Also, I've revised the guidelines I will include in each thread, and added some helpful links. Now, my threads on bounties (which need to be created before the bounty is posted, so that the link to them can be included in the bounty, and of course need to be reedited later with the bounty link), will read:

CODE

* Due to potential misunderstandings about how to split the bounty between translators and editors that resulted in my recent bounties costing me 50%-100% more than listed price, I am now splitting the bounty between translating and editing. The first bounty that goes up in the system is for translating only. Once I have the translation, I'll post the editing bounty;
* broken Engrish craplation will not be accepted;
* yes, please translate (or at least summarize) any existing author's rants, credits, titles of content, and so on, if present;
* yes, please translate into English non-moan SFXes (examples: bounce, giggle, jinngle, creak);
* if you do the translating, you should accept the bounty, PM me and post here. Once you've done so, the bounty will be reserved for you, however, if the translation is not completed within 2 weeks, it will be considered stalled/dropped and other translators will be allowed to work on it;
* if you do the editing: please note I would like to upload the gallery to e-h system myself; I am not expecting much profit, but as a fellow bounty poster said it, it's all about prestige. What I pay out with the bounty is usually worth more then the gallery will make in the year. If you end up posting the translated doujin to the e-h galleries, I'll probably halve the bounty (if you did the translation and editing), or refuse to pay (if you did the editing only; note that the translator will still get fully paid by me);
* crappy editing will not be accepted;
* please include credits with the translator name (unless they requested here to be anonymous), yourself as an editor (if you want), and my nickname (and those of others who contributed to this bounty significantly) as the sponsor, and the name of our site (E-hentai) as the host. Sample credit page: [url=http://ehentaihip.com/s/e9dd5ef978/407222-85]link[/url];
* those bounties are for the hard work (translation and editing). If you just found the gallery somewhere and just uploaded it here, you are not eligible for my bounties, but I will still give you a reward - 5+5 (apply for it here);
* if you find a hq version of the J raw, whether it has or hasn't been translated, I'll reward you for it with a 2+2 reward (apply for it here :) );

Helpful links for the translators: [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=41778]Guide for New & Potential Translators[/url], [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=6233]Japanese slang[/url], [url=https://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=29086&st=20&p=819653&#entry819653]a guide on Japanese onomatopoeia (Tonigobe)[/url], [url=http://www.writtensound.com/index.html]www.writtensound.com[/url], [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=34269]Bad translations. Examples of.[/url]

Helpful links for the editors: [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=29852]Comprehensive editing guide[/url], [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=29556&hl=edit]Your Tips for Manga Editing![/url]

Also: [url=http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=44779&st=0]http://forums.ehentaihip.com/index.php?showtopic=44779&st=0[/url]

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Sep 27 2011, 00:23

Excellent guidelines about doing sloppy work. But I think you should change the link to the credit sample to one of the SS's that haven't been taken into the shadows in case newer T/E's don't know about it.

Excellent guidelines about doing sloppy work. But I think you should change the link to the credit sample to one of the SS's that haven't been taken into the shadows in case newer T/E's don't know about it.

If somebody gives me a better link, I'll switch it, but it also may be a good opportunity for those new T/E to learn about the fjords...

I forget whether or not I left a comment whenever I accepted a bounty, but I do recall discussing it with the poster via PM most, if not all the time. Still, I'm curious to know what everyone would think of people who don't leave a comment, but have a rank of C or above. They might be at least a little trustworthy by default since they've obviously completed bounties in the past (unlike those unranked assholes who accept and just sit on it without saying anything). They probably aren't so willing to compromise their reputation by submitting a subpart effort that gets rejected, either.

However, I have to admit that I have been guilty of stalling myself, mostly due to my own laziness (I really tend to do things at my own pace). Nonetheless, I try to give a time estimate, and keep in touch with the poster when I go beyond that (I also never accept unless I know I'm about to work on it). I did have one bounty that ultimately got cancelled, though. I really stalled on this one, but I'd mainly attribute it to a lack of motivation. The thing had both hand-written text and poor quality scans, after all, making it very difficult to read.

[*]Raise the required hunter rank to get rid of trolls (most translators are rank C or higher).

though we still need to allow some breathing room for up-and-comers. I myself only attained a C rank recently, and two out of my first five translations have been Black Dog doujins.

This post has been edited by Yamato-san: Sep 29 2011, 20:08

Well, theres always a bunch or smaller doujins (length-wise) that you could use to raise your rank (wink! wink!) =D

yes if its ranked then no problem at all for me,that mean he doing hes job before,like sombeody take my bounty without comment i pm him to give me some proof he doing it, i am still not good making rules hope next time i fixed that.

I think a simple "make no effort to PM me or comment, your acceptance is considered VOID and shall be ignored (and considered a dick!)" would be more than enough to let others know there trolls.

guidelines

Great start. Anybody agree/disagree with these guidelines? If not, I'll edit them into the first post and use them as a preliminary guide for the time being.

Don't forget to abuse some mod to make this thread sticky

Don't forget to abuse some mod to make this thread sticky

How do I go about in doing that?


Since there were no objections I went ahead and added the guidelines suggested by rookie84 to the first post. It should serve as a good start for bounty hunters and posters.

Added a fourth category to the list.


Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

Added a fourth category to the list.
Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

THANK YOU!!

Added a fourth category to the list.
Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

The "more helpful" ones linking to the site you can buy the dojin from?

Also, those linking to a random torrent or archive that still requires further investigation before being proven false... the most @#%$#@ %# #% %#s.

Added a fourth category to the list.
Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

The "more helpful" ones linking to the site you can buy the dojin from?

Also, those linking to a random torrent or archive that still requires further investigation before being proven false... the most @#%$#@ %# #% %#s.

...like this one? The guy that's trying to claim the 300-plus hath bounty posted the EXACTLY same link that was posted by someone else who tried to claim (but was subsequently rejected) the said bounty previously. Unfortunately, sekirei07's been awol for some time and thus there's a good possibility that unless something is done, the waiting period will expire and the fake bounty hunter could then force an acceptance for quick and extremely profitable reward if sekirei07 doesn't return before then.

Good call, I sent him a PM. Not sure if a bounty that lapses is automatically awarded to the claimant, or is reviewed by the "bounty moderator" (=Ten).