[X] My Assistant

Before I start, I guess I should say that I'm still relatively new in this whole translation scene so I'm just wondering what the people that have done these things for a while think about the following points that I'm going to address.

1) Ninjas
2) Speed vs. quality
3) Cock-blockers


Ninjas
The people that fall under this category are pretty much snipers. They don't accept bounties nor show their progress and only claim the bounties when they are finished. The people that did accept it before claiming will have no idea who they are competing with nor will they know if other people are interested in doing the bounty besides themselves.

Speed vs. Quality
Say we have a popular doujin that someone is commissioning. It has a high yield requiring a relatively low amount of work. Some translators become interested and they start working on it. They all accepted the bounty beforehand so everyone knows who they are competing against. If you're a translator, would you go for speed or quality? If you go for speed, you can potentially get the bounty for being the first one to dish it out. On the flip side, your translation could end up being a burning pile of shit. If you go for quality, the upside is obvious. Your end product is better but you risk the possibility that someone might claim it before you do. What should a translator do in this case? I guess what I'm asking is what's the proper way to handle a situation like this.

Cock-blockers
Pretty self-explanatory. This group of people are pretty different from the ninjas. Unlike ninjas that claim the bounty only when they are finished, cock-blockers claim the bounty even before they start as a means to prevent anyone else from accepting or claiming the bounty. Usually they will have an accompanying message or PM to the bounty poster saying that they will have it done by X amount of time to prevent the bounty poster from outright disputing the claim. Personally, I'm not too fond of this particular group but I would also like to hear your thoughts on it.

Retarded Claimers
Like the name suggests, these people don't like to read. They claim anything they see without bothering to read the bounty description or what the poster is asking for. Typically, their claims are accompanied by but are not limited to the following:

1) A link to a random image, file, or anything else that has nothing to do with the bounty.
2) Relinking the gallery that you specified in the bounty description itself.

So, what's the proper bounty etiquette that translators and editors should follow when dealing with these types of situations? I haven't found any discussions regarding this so I'm assuming that there is none in place, which means that people are free to do as they please. And the only thing preventing them from doing so is the discretion of the bounty poster. Some feedback on these three points would be much appreciated. If enough discussion can be generated from this, maybe a system can be set up that translators and editors can follow for properly dealing with bounties. A list of commandments if you will, or something of this sort.

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Guidelines: These are some preliminary guidelines for prospective translators/editors/bounty posters.

For bounty hunters:

1. Don't claim a bounty that someone else has already accepted without prior notice. Place an "accept" so that the bounty poster and other translator know that there is a competitor.
2. Don't accept a bounty if you can't finish it in a reasonable amount of time. I would suggest 1 week for <40 pg (most doujinshi), 2 weeks for <100 pg (long works like the Silent Saturn series or text-heavy stuff like Black Dog), and 1 month for full tanks (most mangas).
3. Give the bounty poster an estimate of how long you will take. If there are extenuating circumstances that will cause you to go over the estimate, PM the poster so he knows what's going on.

For bounty posters, here are some ways to ensure a reasonable level of quality:

1. Be specific in the bounty description (e.g., they must give a time estimate, etc.).
2. Raise the required hunter rank to get rid of trolls (most translators are rank C or higher).
3. Approach specific translators.
4. Split translating and editing duties, as that opens up the bounty to a wider pool of translators who don't edit and lets you place a quality control step before the gallery is uploaded.
5. Don't be lazy. Put a little bit of effort to show that you actually care about the bounty. Writing a simple comment or even a smiley would suffice when accepting claims.

This post has been edited by Sushilicious: Jan 5 2012, 06:05

I've only been working as a translator on these forums recently, but working as a translator across a wide variety of groups, friends, strangers, websites, etc. I always tend to first send a PM or email to a person of interest, saying that I am interested in working on their request.

This is not only beneficial to the person that made the request, but to the translator, such as myself. Half of this is to get the specifics of the request, such as time frames, details, what is optional and what isn't, and most of all, if there's somebody else they're currently working with. The other half is just for peace of mind.

This isn't to say that if someone decides to ninja a bounty and their translation is exquisite, that's not a bad thing at all. But personally, even if you're the most lingual person in the world, it couldn't hurt for you to contact the person who made the request and let them know you're going to be doing the work for them.

I don't really have much of a comment for the other 2 categories, really, since I don't know how a bounty is managed by its creator. But I'd like to think that speed translations and "cock blockers" are under the supervision of the person who made the bounty.

This post has been edited by Koudesu: Sep 25 2011, 04:17

Koudesu made some very good points.

I'm ashamed to admit that i've been all three >_<

It's alittle hard to say what is considered "proper". But calling it "bounties" does make alot of sense since everyone fights for the prize by any means necessary. Like for instance that *Bleep* bounty where *the translator I was working with* and I were gonna go 50/50 on it, but were blocked by some other person that did a shit translation job, and were again (so far) denied since another translator apparently posted it up before we finished it DESPITE the fact we both mentioned we'd be working on it before anyone else came along.

I can understand where a cock blocker* comes from though, because it's a serious pain in the ass to be working on something, only to have someone ninja it from you leaving you with the choice of tossing it in the trash or posting it and looking like a copycat. Really, it's probably better to not to put an acceptance on it, because it risks gaining attention by others. So until you're able to slightly modify the description, or have an additional box for a quick note, it can be a bit of a pain all the way around.

One last thing, you should add another group to that. Something for those who are quick to claim a bounty without actually understanding the description.


*To be honest, i've only clock blocked an edit bounty when they come around which is a dick move (I know), but at the same time, they can sit for a while too.

This post has been edited by Super Shanko: Sep 25 2011, 03:43

Ninjas
I just send a pm before starting on a translation so that it isn't a wasted effort, but i did come across a ninja while i was halfway into translating before.

Speed vs. Quality
you mean like that varukyuria no seikan bounty? lol
I prefer quality over speed so i usually wait for a response from the bounty poster

Cock-blockers
solve it with the poster

I prefer cock-blockers to ninjas because I can close my bounty and prevent somebody else works for free; and I like a good work so I don't press the translator to get the job done before a deadline.
What I really hate are those people who accept your bounty just because and make that any potential translator lose the interest in the job. Why they do that? I don't know.

I prefer cock-blockers to ninjas because I can close my bounty and prevent somebody else works for free; and I like a good work so I don't press the translator to get the job done before a deadline.
What I really hate are those people who accept your bounty just because and make that any potential translator lose the interest in the job. Why they do that? I don't know.

That's why I always make sure to mention that comment-less acceptee's are to be ignored. Should just change it to "If you fail to comment in the acceptance box, then fuck ya!". Maybe then they'd take it seriously.

i'm guessing n/t stands for no text. when i first started translating i avoided n/t because i thought it stood for now translating until someone told me to ignore those lol

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I knew that Valkyria doujinshi would be trouble, someone actually approached me about doing it as well.

I dunno, do you define a ninja as someone who claims a bounty with no warning? Or as someone who claims a bounty that someone else has already accepted with no warning? I've done the former a lot, but never the latter. The main reason why is because once I've made a commitment, I'm compelled to keep it. If I start a translation and then realize, "Man, this is way more trouble than it's worth," I can just discard it with no one the wiser. But if I tell the bounty poster I'm doing it, I have to force myself to keep the promise even if I've lost all interest in the work. I don't claim bounties other translators (not the trolls who just leave "n/t") have accepted because I put myself in their shoes, and I know I wouldn't want my work put to waste by someone getting the translation done faster than me. So, if you don't want me ninjaing a bounty from you, accept it and I'll leave it alone.

I don't think there's anything wrong with cock-blockers as long as they keep their word. If you accept a bounty saying you'll be done in a week and then nothing happens for a month, you're being an asshole. But if you say you'll be done in a week and give the translation in that time, I don't see how that's being wrong. Of course, the deadline should be reasonable: if you say you need two weeks for a 20-page doujinshi and someone else finishes it in a day, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

Quality is always better than speed. If you're worried about some other translator taking the bounty before you, contact the bounty poster, link to past commissions so he can see the quality of your work, and then see if you can negotiate the bounty so it can only be claimed by you. This solution kind of breaks down when multiple people have contributed to a bounty, but that usually means the bounty has been up for a while and speed is less of an issue.

Can we also include the actual bounty posters? Like the ones that back out of a claim AFTER it was negotiated by the poster and t/e?

Like, if I go and tell the bounty holder i'll have their claim ready in the next few days and they say "sure", then i'm working my fingers to the bone and they deny my claim because someone HAPPENS to post the same doujin from
an outside translator like Saha/desu.

I guess there's not much that can be said but it's still a real pain (at least from an editors POV.

it was me about that valkyria doujin who approach rookie84 lol but i am not rushed it just asking (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif))) ,i am valkyria fan what do you expect (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif),and when i see bigger bounty i just blow (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

not:if vc franchise sould be popular as doujin (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (almost all translated to english),its was never sending to death outside of japan from sega

This post has been edited by loressan: Sep 25 2011, 09:58

I think the valkyria thing was a fluke, the raw was posted 9 months ago.

Now, I'd never post a bounty on anything <1 month, as some stuff gets picked very quickly, and translated within days of posted here (usually, new, hq scans of popular series...).

After a month, anything is far game, and if it happens, rarely, that somebody else does the translation... oh well. It's not like we can force everybody to coordinate through our system.

Regarding the "Speed vs. Quality", has this ever happened? Has anybody ever seen a translator say "I'll try to beat the other" publicly?

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Sep 25 2011, 10:21

no he talking about other one from (C80) [Fukafuka Tenshoku] Valkyria no Seikan (Valkyria Chronicles)

As far as I see it, there is no bounty etiquette. If someone or a group of people drop a large sum of e-money on a bounty, it's whoever dishes out the goods first. Most all "chump change" bounties will be ignored unless the translator and/or editor has personal interest in them.

But it all comes down to the bounty poster themselves. If they're satisfied with the first thing they're given even if it's a steaming pile of shit, there isn't much anyone else gunning for the bounty can do. Of course, no one's gonna complain too much if the rush job/ninja is an adequate piece of work, but for those obviously shit jobs.... Well yea, no need to go into detail there.

So what bounty posters can do if they care about the quality of their end product (in my eyes), provided there were multiple people expressing interest in their bounty, is use that full week that's given to accept/decline the bounty and see if other versions pop up within that time frame. If nothing comes up within that window, then they'll just be stuck with whatever was given to them, for better or worse. Granted, this fails without a bounty being able to be "claimed" by multiple people. Cuz if a better version does pop up, the poster can just back out of the bounty entirely and not reup it.... So on second thought, that might not work out at all.

So there's really no way to go about dealing with this. You better just be fast and do quality work. Or at least adequate work. And pray that the poster cares about a little quality. Alternatively, the poster can put up separate bounties for the translation and edit. At least that way, they can get their script checked by one of floating TL'ers around here, and then call for an "experienced" editor in the editing bounty. Probably be the best way to ensure some quality product... maybe.

I think the valkyria thing was a fluke, the raw was posted 9 months ago.

Now, I'd never post a bounty on anything <1 month, as some stuff gets picked very quickly, and translated within days of posted here (usually, new, hq scans of popular series...).

After a month, anything is far game, and if it happens, rarely, that somebody else does the translation... oh well. It's not like we can force everybody to coordinate through our system.

Regarding the "Speed vs. Quality", has this ever happened? Has anybody ever seen a translator say "I'll try to beat the other" publicly?

well, when someone does the bounty within a day and comes up with a translation that has lost meanings and grammar errors. i'd say it's obvious

as for quality, i guess you could try picking the translator or sending requests to ones you've worked with.

better the devil you know than the devil you don't

This post has been edited by Madao: Sep 25 2011, 12:04

Well, for one you should start putting quality requirements in the bounty. If you specify that the translation shouldn't be a steaming pile of shit, it's easier to reject in case of obvious shittitude. Of course, such cases would always be subjective, but as in the case with the bounty I suspect triggered this thread, it should be easy enough to point to something specific.

As for the so-called "cock-blockers", I consider them a non-issue. If those are disputed, that's an automatic reject, but if you want to negotiate with them, that's your business.

Well I guess I should make a comment as I might have been a key trigger in this debate.

The main reason I put a time limit request is because for many months now I have been getting bounties that I requested "Accepted" and never hearing about them for months later and eventually (for reasons I don't know) my bounty disappears from the site as if I never posted it (my Hath and stuff is returned of course) but its so annoying and it looks like I took it down myself and I feel that bounty hunters won't take up my requests because they think I will pull it down.

I think an idea that could be installed is when a bounty hunter clicks the "accept" button, a message pops up where they have to send a message to the bounty poster to inform them of the details such as time frame, quality, or things of that nature. At the very least it can be a means to touch base between the bounty hunter and poster

Well I guess I should make a comment as I might have been a key trigger in this debate.

The main reason I put a time limit request is because for many months now I have been getting bounties that I requested "Accepted" and never hearing about them for months later and eventually (for reasons I don't know) my bounty disappears from the site as if I never posted it (my Hath and stuff is returned of course) but its so annoying and it looks like I took it down myself and I feel that bounty hunters won't take up my requests because they think I will pull it down.

I think an idea that could be installed is when a bounty hunter clicks the "accept" button, a message pops up where they have to send a message to the bounty poster to inform them of the details such as time frame, quality, or things of that nature. At the very least it can be a means to touch base between the bounty hunter and poster

I think after a certain amount of time, if the bounty isn't updated, it eventually disappears from the page. So you have to feed into it to keep it "alive", so to speak.

In any case, a person already has the chance to fill in that kind of information before accepting the bounty. It's just that most people don't put anything reassuring in the space provided. When I accept a bounty, I try to include some information so at the very least, the poster knows their bounty is being worked on for certain. Of course, a person may run into roadblocks along the way. It's happened to me while trying to complete a bounty. I think it was yours lol. The translator I was working with disappeared on me, so I couldn't complete the bounty in a timely manner. Stuff like that happens. So on the off chance that something like that happens, it would be in the poster's best interest to pm the person/people that accepted their bounty and ask for an update on the progress and hope for a satisfactory reply.

Actually, I have t admit, putting a time limit on it was pretty slick, as far as avoiding that month(+) long wait for a response from anyone.

Bounties expire after 30 days of inactivity. You should get a PM three days before it happens.