[X] My Assistant

I can understand the desire for every fighting style to be capable. However, I like the fact that HV's design encourages players to switch from melee to mage sometime after level 315 when you can maximize Faster Imperil. Sure it is possible to play from level 1 to 500 as melee only. However, I think it is more interesting to basically start over mid way though the game and build up a second time until survival on PFUDOR is possible using mage gear. The switch to mage is faster and easier with Hath from stars/awards, but it is something a casual amateur can do.

Yes but doesn't that mean everyone at that point is basically forced into switching into one fighting style and aren't permitted to try others since they aren't viable anymore? If this were a regular RPG that wouldn't be considered acceptable by the games community because no matter what all players are forced to be the exact same with no room to experiment.

Please don't attack me .

FWIW, I do want all fighting styles to be viable (if not necessarily equally popular), and I'm aware that they kinda aren't at this point. One of the reasons Isekai exists is to make it possible to make major balance changes without risking making it "unplayable" for an extended period of time, and I do plan on making those at some point.

FWIW, I do want all fighting styles to be viable (if not necessarily equally popular), and I'm aware that they kinda aren't at this point. One of the reasons Isekai exists is to make it possible to make major balance changes without risking making it "unplayable" for an extended period of time, and I do plan on making those at some point.

Ok. But the big question everyone would like to know the answer to is : will this rebalancing of styles be done by giving a boost to the currently "undesirable" ones, or by nerfing the most powerful ?

And last but not least, will it be done through inesorably maiming and crippling years of investments in the current equipments ?

Ok. But the big question everyone would like to know the answer to is : will this rebalancing of styles be done by giving a boost to the currently "undesirable" ones, or by nerfing the most powerful ?

Not Tenboro but... from what I understand of his plans for the future (you can find a lot of this on the 'To Be Added' page of the wiki, and old forum sources - not Super Secret Special info I have private access to), probably a bit of both. But it's hard to explain how the fighting styles would change to achieve that right now because a few other changes to the core gameplay would change what makes a style good.

For example: as far as I know, we're slated for (long-term) an overhaul to mitigation & HP values, avoidances, a monster lab expansion, and a general slow-down of the game - the intention of which is for individual actions to matter more, not for battles to last longer.

Besides the likeliness that monsters are going to take a little longer to kill (probably with rewards scaled to match, and battle lengths adjusted so it's not too sadistic) - the monster lab expansion mentioned is intended to include slightly more variation between monsters. I don't know what form that will take exactly, and I don't know how detailed the plans are for that. For the sake of what I'm trying to say, though, there is an analogy in the game right now - the schoolgirl arenas.

Mages are really good at blasting tons of average enemies away, if they all die at roughly the same time - but if there's even one monster per round significantly stronger than the others, it slows them down considerably. Meanwhile, melee styles have more precision tools for dealing with those monsters (think Merciful Blow, or Frenzied Blows, etc).

Because of the way the game plays currently, melee can't be even close to mages (except 2H) even if they have literally infinite damage. Case in point - my DW and 1H builds can generally 1-shot imperiled enemies with just normal attacks, and I've practiced them a bunch to see how fast I can do various types of battle - and they're still miles behind mage. The same can be felt in low levels of Tower. The whole game has to change before the fighting styles can be meaningfully equalized.

And last but not least, will it be done through inesorably maiming and crippling years of investments in the current equipments ?

As far as I know, there's no significant changes planned for equipment - at least not before a fuckton of other stuff - but the Tenboro philosophy regarding equipment has always been that new stuff being shiny doesn't mean your existing shiny stuff became any less shiny.

And my personal philosophy is just that thinking about games in terms of what you have is always going to lead to fear of change and getting upset one day when they do. I try to enjoy HV as it is now, and I guess one day the stuff on my account might be obsolete and replaced, but I'll try not to think of that as having ruined the sense of achievement I enjoyed along the way.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jul 30 2021, 04:29

... - but the Tenboro philosophy regarding equipment has always been that new stuff being shiny doesn't mean your existing shiny stuff became any less shiny.

Maybe it is now ... but "always been" ? Dont think so. You know full well the old infamous change that made practically all old equip way worse then post-patch ones, back in the days of "everything unassigned".

And my personal philosophy is just that thinking about games in terms of what you have is always going to lead to fear of change and getting upset one day when they do. I try to enjoy HV as it is now, and I guess one day the stuff on my account might be obsolete and replaced, but I'll try not to think of that as having ruined the sense of achievement I enjoyed along the way.

That depends. That's why I have cited investments. And I'm speaking for longtime rich top players here (not for me, at least not still).
In a game that force you to wait literally years in order to be able to collect a full top-of-the-class set, complete with max forging, proper IW and Hath perks (and that, even with rich extra-game resources, which just mitigte a bit the problem by permitting very rich people to do crazy bidwars for the few top items IF & WHEN they are auctioned), in such a game you simply cannot make overhaul changes every few years that invalidate all the efforts done in those same years (a least, if you want to keep your old players rather then push then to ragequit).

The point here is the proportion between the avg. time-range needed to reach most (if not all) significant achievements, and the time-range of disrupting changes that destroy those achievements (or at least put a serious dent on them, re-lengthening significantly an already lengthy track. It's like running against a moving target; maybe you find that interesting, I'm willing to bet most of the userbase here would find that unnerving, to use an understatement.

Maybe it is now ... but "always been" ? Dont think so. You know full well the old infamous change that made practically all old equip way worse then post-patch ones, back in the days of "everything unassigned".

No, that's exactly what I mean - that patch didn't make old equipment worse. New equipment is just better. Existing stuff didn't get nerfed. Hence that philosophy.

That depends. That's why I have cited investments. And I'm speaking for longtime rich top players here (not for me, at least not still).

In a game that force you to wait literally years in order to be able to collect a full top-of-the-class set, complete with max forging, proper IW and Hath perks (and that, even with rich extra-game resources, which just mitigte a bit the problem by permitting very rich people to do crazy bidwars for the few top items IF & WHEN they are auctioned), in such a game you simply cannot make overhaul changes every few years that invalidate all the efforts done in those same years (a least, if you want to keep your old players rather then push then to ragequit).

I would consider myself one of those players. And I'm okay with change. It's a philosophical thing.

The point here is the proportion between the avg. time-range needed to reach most (if not all) significant achievements, and the time-range of disrupting changes that destroy those achievements (or at least put a serious dent on them, re-lengthening significantly an already lengthy track. It's like running against a moving target; maybe you find that interesting, I'm willing to bet most of the userbase here would find that unnerving, to use an understatement.

Sucks to be them. Enjoy what you have while it's relevant. Look back through history and consider how many things have been succeeded by greater records; has Usain Bolt completely invalidated every gold medallist in the 100 meters by having the all-time fastest record? Will his achievements now mean nothing if and when they're beaten?

But it's okay. I know everyone playing this game is more attached to their stuff than actually playing it.

I have a question about token drops. Wiki says that we get increased chance of drops at 50+ rounds arenas, that used to be the Endgame challenge, now that the number of rounds changed do we still get increased chance of drops at Endgame or do we now need to beat Exile to get a get a higher chance of token drops.

I have a question about token drops. Wiki says that we get increased chance of drops at 50+ rounds arenas, that used to be the Endgame challenge, now that the number of rounds changed do we still get increased chance of drops at Endgame or do we now need to beat Exile to get a get a higher chance of token drops.

That doesn't refer to the actual drops; it's talking about the arena clear bonus (higher arenas have higher chances).

That doesn't refer to the actual drops; it's talking about the arena clear bonus (higher arenas have higher chances).

So do the drops percent are still the same after this update?

But it's okay. I know everyone playing this game is more attached to their stuff than actually playing it. :rolleyes:

I think that should be, more attached to their stuff than actually playing or shrining it. I cannot confirm anything, but there are rumors that many keep loot from Christmas and Easter instead of offering it to Snowflake.

So do the drops percent are still the same after this update?

More or less. You'll get slightly less per arena, but the same per monster (and slightly more per stamina, because of the accelerated density).

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jul 30 2021, 07:24

In a game that force you to wait literally years in order to be able to collect a full top-of-the-class set, complete with max forging, proper IW and Hath perks, you simply cannot make overhaul changes every few years that invalidate all the efforts done in those same years (a least, if you want to keep your old players rather then push then to ragequit).

I would consider myself one of those players. And I'm okay with change. It's a philosophical thing.

As a player who's simply chasing after Peerless equipment on persistent at this point, I can say for myself that I have loads more fun playing on Isekai chasing after Magnificent and Legendary drops to improve my set.

If we got a patch with better equipment that invalidated the current Peerless pieces I have as the best available, I would be annoyed, but it would open the door to further improve my equipment once again, but the point of it happening too fast as mentioned by mundomuñeca is also valid.

With that in mind, I'd like to suggest something regarding "New Equipment" patches:

-Release new equipment with better stats every time a goal is achieved by the entire playerbase.

Checking on the Bazaar, I found this equip, with the equip ID of 274.212.146, which I believe is a recent drop.

Let's call it a Tier9 equipment, as there's 9 numbers on the ID number, so when the playerbase manages to reach 1.000.000.000 total quips generated, then we get a patch with new Tier10 equipment with better stats.

This should take long enough that the playerbase isn't frustrated, but would also be a group effort with a noticeable release date where everyone can get new shiny stuff.

If anything, it would be cool if Live Percentile Ranges got updated so we can see which equips are from the current patch, and which ones are from Legacy patches, as I always forget the number for old equips and have to look it up.

For equipment specifically, I'm planning some fundamental revamps, but to do it in a way that preserves the old equipment, even if it were to change again in the future.

Since there are now two worlds, people who want to chase for new equipment and frequently replace their set can do it on Isekai, while people who want to do the long-term grind for the ultimate equipment set(s) can do it on Persistent without worrying about the efforts being "reset" - and this will likely be cemented further in the coming updates. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be brand new equipment types added that are "better" than the old types, but I plan on avoiding messing with stuff in a way that creates "pre-patch" and "post-patch" tiers for the same type of equipment.

No, that's exactly what I mean - that patch didn't make old equipment worse. New equipment is just better. Existing stuff didn't get nerfed. Hence that philosophy.
I would consider myself one of those players. And I'm okay with change. It's a philosophical thing.
Sucks to be them. Enjoy what you have while it's relevant. Look back through history and consider how many things have been succeeded by greater records; has Usain Bolt completely invalidated every gold medallist in the 100 meters by having the all-time fastest record? Will his achievements now mean nothing if and when they're beaten?

But it's okay. I know everyone playing this game is more attached to their stuff than actually playing it.

dragontamer8740 is right on one point : either you truly don't listen/don't understand what the other say;

Or you just ignore it by faking you don't understand, then proceed answering to questions that we didn't ask or are simply different from the ones we asked

Maybe you have studied sophism.
Talking with you is pointless. Have a nice day, bye.


EDIT : and, for the record :

I have never said "change is bad" or something akin to that. Quite the opposite, I think changes have to be made from time to time. But change things just so they are different from what they were before is stupid.

I have simply elucidated why some kinds of changes should be evaluated carefully, both in type and in timing. Thinking them over with all the implicit beside the explicit connections they drag with them. Not just posting promotional advertisings about how great and good they are.

That said, I now think you're no sophist; you lack finesse for that; you could work in an advertising agency, though

EDIT :

For equipment specifically, I'm planning some fundamental revamps, but to do it in a way that preserves the old equipment, even if it were to change again in the future.

Since there are now two worlds, people who want to chase for new equipment and frequently replace their set can do it on Isekai, while people who want to do the long-term grind for the ultimate equipment set(s) can do it on Persistent without worrying about the efforts being "reset" - and this will likely be cemented further in the coming updates. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be brand new equipment types added that are "better" than the old types, but I plan on avoiding messing with stuff in a way that creates "pre-patch" and "post-patch" tiers for the same type of equipment.

Thanks for the news. I'm sure people reading your posts will appreciate your answer, like I do.

This post has been edited by mundomuñeca: Jul 30 2021, 15:51

On the new version, on the Arena, I've noticed that I can't go back and do a level like First Blood because it's moved off the screen. Is it intentional that we can't go back and clear the earlier arenas on a higher difficulty?

Yeah
Last 14 arenas unlocked to your level are available, so as you unlock the 15th, the first drops off, etc

People getting hacked isn't relevant for the update thread, split to separate thread.

Yeah
Last 14 arenas unlocked to your level are available, so as you unlock the 15th, the first drops off, etc

yeah im not looking forward to unlocking the higher arenas since I doubt ill be able to do them locked to pfudor, but they will still remove some of the quicker/easier arenas i can do.

This post has been edited by I dunno what ooer: Aug 3 2021, 19:10

Since now highest 3 arena yield T7 clear bonuses, we'll gonna get tenbora box on Christmas?

Level 500 players already have every day Christmas+20%.

Does anybody else miss having access to the lower level arenas?

Edited because I've probably just missed it elsewhere in the thread, but does autosell leave everything in equipment storage alone?

This post has been edited by teenyman45: Aug 4 2021, 04:19